Natus Vincere at CPH Games 2013: The Real Story

21:57 / 30.03.2013 , Author : sandr1x

Natus Vincere CEO, Alexander "ZeroGravity" Kokhanovskyy continues his blogging at www.navi-gaming.com and explains his thoughs and real situation that happened with our Counter-Strike: Global Offensive team at Copenhagen Games 2012:

"I would like to write a blog which will tell you why I decided to pull out my team from the tournament, and why the admin's statement on HLTV.org is not true.


Situation #1: "So, when do we play?"


Here's the comment from the CPH Games representative: This morning, Na`Vi showed up at 9 and asked our receptionists when the matches started. They were told it was at 10, and at 10:14 they showed up at the venue to collect their rented PCs and set up to play.


Manager of Natus Vincere came to the venue at 09:00 a.m. and asked when the team should come. The tournament representative told him, that at they should come at 10:00 a.m. Our hotel was two minutes away from the venue. We couldn't possibly be late for 14 minutes like the tournament representative says. We sat down at our tables at 10:04 a.m. We came to the venue even earlier - at 09:58.


Situation #2: "Default loss for nonworking computers"


Her's another comment from CPH Games representative: We told them they had 15 minutes, which meant we would wait for them for 30 minutes to set up and get ready, or they would lose the first map. Since they did not get ready, they got the message that they had lost the first map against BX3 and that the second map would start at 11. So in the end, we waited one hour for them to be ready.


As mentioned above, there was no coming late. But right off the bat we got the warning that we would get punished with sanctions if we wouldn't be on the server in 10 minutes. The representative didn't tell us that one of the computers he handed us didn't actually work. This fact didn't allow us to fulfill their first request to be on the server in 10 minutes.


According to the official schedule:


29.03 10:00 CET Natus Vincere [x:x] BX3

29.03 13:30 CET Natus Vincere [x:x] Epsilon

29.03 17:00 CET Natus Vincere [x:x] Fnatic


So, it's 3.5 hours per game with Bo3. Of course, even 2.5 hours would be plenty for us to finish this Bo3. Playing without pauses, 5 minutes per break between the maps, etc. Instead, the organizers just gave us the default loss. They didn't tell us to play with 4 guys of the team ready, the didn't ask BX3 players to wait (and I'm sure they would, I have some special respect for Norwegians), they didn't even give us a 3-6-9 round penalty. No warning, just default loss which is the most harsh punishment in a tournament.


Situation #3 - "The triumph of the dullards"


A comment from CPH Games representative: "As stated in the rules, tiebreakers are solved as follows, using Na`Vi's group as an example: Tiebreaker3:  Point differential in all series (Na?Vi were the only team to lose a map against BX3, which is why they placed third in the group)."


I don't get how he could be so mistaken. Wait, or did he just lie on purpose?! There are official rules on the tournament's website! It clearly states:

In the main group stages teams will receive 2 points for a victory, 0 points for a loss.

If teams are tied on points in any group stage the standing between these teams will be decided firstly by the result of the match between the teams concerned, then by points differential in the matches between the teams concerned and then by points differential in all matches concerning the teams in question.


The rules clearly state one thing: only the concerned teams are considered while deciding.

- If teams are tied on points in any group stage the standing between these teams will be decided firstly by the result of the match between the teams concerned -  all 3 teams have 1-1-1 here.

- then by points differential in the matches between the teams concerned - all teams have 0 (2-1; 1-2; 2-1) 

and then by points differential in all matches concerning the teams in question - here's the dullards' triumph! Let's count points. But only "win"-points count! Every team won 2 matches = 4 points (all 3 teams). EVEN IF we count maps, it's 6 maps = 12 points for all 3 teams! There's absolutely nothing that could allow admins to factor in the results of the match against Norwegians, because the rules state they don't count! In other words, all 3 teams have EQUAL number of points in every aspect.


There could not possibly be any other option. It's clear that the round differential between the contenders should be considered (the same way it was handled during CPH Games last year; also ESL, ESWC, Starladder, GameGune, Dreamhack and ESEA use the same system, ALL major tourneys use it). In other words, coming late and default loss wouldn't even matter. We have a video which proves that the admins decided to count rounds (we would be able to come out on top that way). Then you can see an fnatic player pushing the admin to alter the decision:


The admins ruled out their decision according to the official rules at first, but then changed it in favor of a Danish player.


Summing up...


I was watching the match against fnatic with our art-director in a Japanese restaurant on my iPhone 5. We screamed and shouted cheering for our team. I was very proud of my boys at that moment. They proved once again that they really CAN do it. They can fight, believe in victory and surprise us. Big thanks to them for that they keep making me and the fans happy. The are really able to show some world class Counter-Strike.


The decision to pull out of the tournament was initiated by me and was supported by most players. I'm also thankful to them for their "ball of steel", because nobody in the modern history has done that kind of thing. I know that some of you (and players) wanted to keep playing (got used to that kind of treatment from organizers, not much you could). I'm sorry if I didn't make your expectations come true. But I can assure you that this precedent will initiate an irreversible reaction which will transform the eSports and will serve as a foundation for the future generation of eSports.


All the teams are putting up with that disrespectful treatment of the organizers and consider it a norm. I don't. Don't have patience anymore. You all are afraid for your ratings, sites and stream traffic to fall. You are afraid for your tournament finishes taken away from you. At the same time, the rights of the teams are constantly violated by the organizers. How foolish was I a couple of years ago thinking that it wouldn't affect us. It affects us all!


How many times the teams spent tens of thousands of dollars and didn't get their prize money? How many times the admins made ridiculous and biased decisions? Why the rules are ALWAYS different? How long can we put up with top teams participating in poorly organized tournaments? The time of professionals in eSports has arrived. The professionals with honest hearts and men of dignity. Their word will mean much more than just a signature on a paper.


Everyone will benefit in the long run only from when all efforts of the teams and organizers are put towards the development and the overall progress of eSports in general. Next two weeks will be the beginning of a new turn in eSports which will dramatically influence the development and popularization of eSports in the whole world."

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Comments 281

Enter the sum of two values: 6+1 =

1. 2013-03-30 22:32:05 - 4n6 ( kalle18ninja@gmail.com )
How many events have the navi team delayed because of there lacking of showing up in the right time? Grow a pair and realise that you need to shape up. Your culture don't have what people in western Europe find to be basic common sense.
2. 2013-03-30 22:33:26 - Gogo ( g0g0_d94@hotmail.com )
Just wanted to point out that you left a Russian bit: "- then by points differential in the matches between the teams concerned - у всех команд 0 (2-1; 1-2; 2-1)" Anyway, interesting read. Will be interesting to see how, if at all, the organizers respond.
3. 2013-03-30 23:18:26 - f
#1 And? It's not about culture. And what culture are you talking about? Nav'i took first place but guys from CPH put them on third despite any rules and facts, just great culture example.
4. 2013-03-30 23:19:49 - hltvuser ( user921@gmail.com )
"I play for BX3, and here is how it happend from my point of view. Around 9:20 we got the "veto-card" from the admins, I then go over to Navi's place, but there is no one there, no mouse or keyboard. So I asked the teams that were sitting close if they had seen them, no one had. I then went over to the admins around 9:30 to tell them that Navi isnt here yet, and ask them to get in contact with them. I go around the venue to see if I can find them, but at around 9:50 I go back to the admin to hear if they had heard anything, they hadnt. 10:15 I see the navi players walk in, I go over to veto, admins is there telling them that they are late, and now has 5 min to setup the PC's. We veto quick so the match can start. 10 mins later they still havnt set up there stuff, and the admins tell us that we won the first map on overtime. Even if starix PC had worked, they would still be late for the 20 min delay CPH has. We told the admins that we could wait for them, but they said the time schedule dindt allow it."
5. 2013-03-31 03:00:00 - eee ( henkesmamma@joelsbitar.com )
NaVi has been late to every fucking event. We swedes never come late and we win everything. I'm glad you left.
6. 2013-03-31 03:00:00 - A
Honestly, that's the only thing I don't like about Na'Vi (as teams) is that they're alwyas late... /
7. 2013-03-31 03:00:00 - Handa ( palatkasmamma@palagora.ru )
Palatka thinks Navi always late why?
8. 2013-03-31 04:21:27 - LOL
It's not about being late... They were punished for being late, but thats not a reason to put them on the third place without any reasons for that. Almost every game starting playoffs was late, so where is so called time schedule? Where is the punishment for other teams? No rules. CPH just do whatever they want and speaking about Navi's delays after that. So mb we should speak about CPH's delays? Tournament started 9.00 and still is not finished, and if nobody is late than why it is still not finished?is it ok time schedule for players to play more than 19 hours in a row. And if the reason is cause of other teams being late why that teams are not punished too? Or mb it's late cause of CPH admins and organizators can't organize event well, but CPH tell us that they are never late, only Navi team is late and was punished for that? Even if Navi was late for 15minutes, the event is late for a lot of hours. Mb CPH should punish themselves for delaying event and never make such a fail events any more? but wait they don't care about it, there are no rules for them, they just do whatever they want and punish whoever they want and give places in groups as they want.
9. 2013-03-31 08:14:50 - trgnoobie
Clearly there are too many dumb Swedes to see the explanation that they were not late at all. Stupid stupid dumb Swedes. Go drink less pine tar.
10. 2013-03-31 11:37:04 - sss ( hora@gmail.com )
#10 & #11 You guys are fucking delusional fanboys if you think NaVi weren't late when they even say that they came to the VENUE two minutes before their game was gonna start. That means they have to get their computers and setup in two minutes. Most players and people there are saying that they saw NaVi players come in at 10.15. Most of the delays were caused by internet problems and computer problems, not teams that were late. NaVi has never given a shit about organizers, they do whatever they want. It's good that they finally got punished.
11. 2013-03-31 11:49:34 - s ( b-selm@online.no )
So Na'Vi, what have you learned from this experience..? If u ask a admin when a tournament start, and u get the answer 1000. You dont show up at 0958! How does that make your case strong? When you actually say ureself that you arrive at the event on such a bad time. As you said, your hotel is 2 min away from the event, but then.. "How the fuck do you manage to show up 2 min before the tournament starts"!? And ofc, one of your rental laptops didnt work. But, that is your own fault, for not showing up in good time to prepair! You guys use computers every day, and should know that computers can be a pain in the ass. And when your not using your own computers, then meet up in time so you can make sure everything works like it should. I understand that you can feel frustrated and feel unfair threated by CPH Games. But what about the people waiting for you guys to show up 2 min before the tournament starts..? Even with your own computers, you guys wouldnt be ready for the tournament start! This is all just based on bad decisions on when to arrive, when you know the tournament start 1000. So, next time, show up at a decent time before a tournament starts. To be sure everything work out like it should. This is not CPH games fault.
12. 2013-03-31 12:05:11 - midfairy ( magarasu@gmail.com )
Idiots, thus here delay? Navi not after him taken off from championship. culture for danes and swedes? Not, did not hear...
13. 2013-03-31 12:10:01 - what ( fakeandgay@what.com )
** Hi, this is a fake comment just like others comment :) **
14. 2013-03-31 13:46:19 - kainono
"Manager of Natus Vincere came to the venue at 09:00 a.m. and asked when the team should come. The tournament representative told him, that at they should come at 10:00" Please people learn to read. "They should come at 10" does NOT mean "The games start at 10". If the game started at 10 the representative should have said to com at 9:30. Another key point totally missed by you people "default loss wouldn't even matter". It probably means that if the tiebreaker was as the rules actually said (and not something they came up on the fly like it seems it was) Na'Vi would probably still come ahead. I am not defending anyone here (I didn't read anything besides this post on the matter, so I don't have enough info to take my own conclusions and chose a side), just pointing out that you guys should first read (and read it properly) before start writing.
15. 2013-03-31 14:21:04 - santa
According to the official schedule: 29.03 10:00 CET Natus Vincere [x:x] BX3 So, Na'vi KNEW when they HAD to be there.. And if a admin say "u can come 1000" then he is retarded. Unless he said the tournament start 1000.. The manager can have misunderstood.. But i wasnt there. So i have no reason to know. The only thing i know, from Navi statement and BX3 and admins, is that Navi was late...
16. 2013-03-31 14:37:58 - dd
#16 It's their own fault for not double checking. Even the official schedule which are on their website said 10.00.
17. 2013-03-31 15:00:01 - omg
Why are you all talking about time schedule and Navi being late??? It has no deal to the real fail from CPH. The real fail is that Navi took first place, but after fnatic pressing the judges they change their decision and put Navi on third. Mb let's talk about culture of organizers and swedes in this case?
18. 2013-03-31 15:06:33 - asd
Lets be fair, Navi came late and lost 1 map , fine, they accepted it. But when it came down to the tie, the admins didn't do their job and abused their authority and made Navi last. So the admins are to be blamed.
19. 2013-03-31 15:16:46 - fatum ( someemail@gmail.com )
Нави правы только в том, что админы некомпетентны и сделали ошибку. Но произошло это когда админы ошибочно отдали победу нави, сказав, что будет считаться разница по раундам. Это было ошибкой, так как использовалась другая схема - считалась разница взятых и отданных карт. И по этой схеме уже были подсчитаны очки во всех остальных группах. Так что, когда админы сказали нави в начале, что будут считать раунды, они были не правы и ошиблись. Фриис подошел и указал им на их ошибку - в чем проблема?
20. 2013-03-31 16:25:54 - adrot ( ayushdogra@gmail.com )
With this evidence...im with navi.
21. 2013-03-31 22:28:56 - dsd
#19 & #20 The admins made the right decision. What they shouldn't have done was giving the teams the wrong information first. Since the maps were not played all 30 rounds it would be completely idiotic to determine the first place from round counting. In the end, the admins were correct with the decision, but they should have gone out with the correct information at first. TLDR: Correct decision, NaVi should stop whining
22. 2013-04-01 02:23:28 - whatever ( kachailo@mail.ru )
Hm... I can't figure out how many times admins changed rules. 1) Then they told Fnatic they gonna win (according to Friis' words in the video) 2) They told Na`Vi they gonna win 3) After being pushed by Friis they changed it again and gave victory to Fnatic ... WTF? And what a lame excuse is "It only takes 10 matches per page, so we have to change page to find every single match, which is going to take a lot of time"?? Really?? Admins, are you in 1980's or so? Can't use your computer? Can't use/develop a relevant tournament software? Have to count rounds manually? Maybe you should use counting sticks? pfff
23. 2013-04-02 13:11:26 - To whatever
Watch video carefully: they told fnatic that they won after first map lost by navi because by that time Epsilon had won 2-0 against BX3 - this secured fnatic the second place by maps difference. So, the remaining two maps if even Navi won them wouldn't change anything. And after the match navi came and started pushing at admins to count rounds what was wrong!
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